On Deducting Late Marks

I was going to list the pros and cons of taking late marks off assignments, but I had my students blog about it, and they hit on pretty much any points I could think of.  So I'll let their words speak here - in a bit.  But first some back-story:

Right now, we (in the History Department) deduct 5% per day up to 15% off and accept late work only up to one week after the due date.  After that it's a zero.  But starting in September, because of the bizarre influence of Cooper, O'Connor, and Wakeman (or C.O.&W. for short), we'll no longer be allowed to deduct late marks or give zeros for any reason.

The gist of our board's updated Assessment, Evaluation, and Reporting Handbook, as I currently understand it from reading a preliminary draft, suggests that we can still have strict cut-off dates.  Then if a student misses the cut-off, the teacher has to call home immediately and either refer the student to interventional support, negotiate an extension or alternative assignment, or give the student an "I" indicating the work is incomplete.  Zero is no longer an option.  It's not clear, however, what we do with a row of "I"s mixed in with other marks.  Some in the C.O.&W. team would have us accept all work even past the last day of the term - 75 days past.  But our board's document alludes to allowing professional discretion by the teacher encouraging us to start with an average, but then consider the most recent or most consistent marks - something many of us already do.  But it's hard to average a bunch of numbers with a few letters thrown in the works, so I suspect many teachers will treat the "I"s as if they ARE zeros even though technically they're not.   Shocking, I know.


I guess the point of recording the "I" instead of the "0" is a symbolic gesture that allows the possibility that the student can and will submit the missing work.  But if they can hand it in later, why have any cut off dates at all?  This has been a problem with the new initiatives since the beginning:  the school board doesn't go all the way with them so we have to implement one idea within an opposing idea - open schooling with a number grade at the end, or cut off dates with kids allowed to submit things months later.  Weird.  And they wonder why we don't embrace the change.

I'll hazard a guess to say the current wording of the handbook will likely lead to some teachers accepting everything in June, some teachers giving bonuses for work submitted on time or a non-mark penalty for lates like offering no comments on the work, and still others having a cut off date and accepting NOTHING after that date then boldly calling home to express that decision with finality.  Teachers can be uncontrollable like that.  Just like students, many teachers will seek out ways to get around the rules and do what makes most sense to them.

At some point somewhere I read that one of the C.O.&W. group said the reasoning behind the no deduction policy is that it's not what happens in the real-world.  Teachers hand in things late without penalty all the time.  Well, that's only partially true.  Teachers hand in things late without losing pay, but they are hounded by secretaries who needed that information yesterday.  When I worked in insurance - which runs like a well-oiled machine - handing in something late was grounds for an uncomfortable chat.  Another late submission, and you're out the door.

It could be argued that these are real-world deadlines that need to be met for a reason, whereas classwork doesn't need to be submitted, really, until June.  But I would counter that due dates in my class are real-world deadlines for them and for me:  Deadlines help students organize their time efficiently, ensure they understand one portion of the course before moving on by getting valuable feedback on submitted work, and ensure that teachers aren't expected to mark literally hundreds of assignments plus the final exams within a 48 hours turnaround before we hit OUR real-world deadline because parents are waiting for report cards to come out.  If students don't hand in the work to me by the due date, then I won't have time to mark it later.  That's the reality we have to work with.

Last year in my FFP class, I had due dates for all assignments but with no penalties attached.  Kids kept complaining that they were getting behind because there're no due dates.  And I'd say, over and over, there ARE due dates, just no penalties.  And they'd say, "That's the same thing!!"  So, half-way through the course, I introduced penalties for late work in order to save them from themselves, and they were grateful.

Let's see what they say this year so far (of the ones that chose this option to write about AND submitted it before the due date!).  I've abridged the posts for clarity but included links to the original writing:

Some of the students like it the way it is, recognizing the reality of allowing students to submit it all in June - "...the failure rate would rise without question":

Ilija says,

The way we have late policies is efficient and it works to encourage people to hand in their work....The workplace will be the same, setting strict dates and rules…therefore why not get used to it before going into the workplace so it’s not as terrifying? In high school, the students need to be slowly introduced to this. The way we have late policies right now should tell the student that their grade on every piece of work will be affected if not handed in on time. To many, this will be encouraging to get work done on time, but for those who tend to be lazy will get the lesson taught the hard way when they notice their grades are lower than they expect. This will teach them to try to work as efficiently and quickly as possible. 

Cory says, 

I think the 5% rule is a good rule for our age. I think the higher grade you are in the worse the punishment should be for late assignments. If you could hand in work all year without consequence the failure rate would rise without question because people would push it off until the last minute and not be able to catch up on time. If I could not hand something in past the due date I think I would fail my courses or just pass with a 50%. 

Devin would prefer it slightly altered for certain types of assignments that aren't time-sensitive or necessary for further learning: 

The penalty for late assignments is fair in my opinion.  If you made it so that you could hand in anything by the end of the year, people wouldn't do any of the work until June. This might lead to the assignments being not well done and rushed....[However] I think it would be a good idea for all these blog posts. Making a due date for a project (the letter for example) makes total sense, but I think making a due date for a blog is pointless. For projects you get lots of time in class to complete them, but for the blogs you generally end up doing them at home. They're also (for the most part) your opinion which may take you some time to think of. I just think you would get better, more thoughtful blog posts if you didn't attach a due date to them.

Some would aim for just a bit more leniency, like Matt who raises the question about leaning towards justice or mercy: 

I think assignments should be penalized in certain circumstances, but if you're sick or not understanding the topic or a slow worker there should be some mercy on the teacher's part. If we opened the due dates to the end of June it would be a distaster and hectic for the teachers who have to mark all this work at once. I do think we should get two weeks before we get a 5% penalty. I think two weeks would work great because we got so many other assignments in other classes, and we can only do so much. As a student of this FFP program, I find we get a lot of work and need more time to hand it in.

Anna suggests late mark deductions, but no zeros or final cut-off date:

The 5% penalty is fair with a limit of 15% overall. Students have much work to do in such little time. Most of the students give up on the class because it's hard to get everything done at once. They ditch the class and fail. Some are sick or on vacation. I, myself, am getting stressed over how much work I need to do this semester. The fact that after a week of not handing something in, you get a zero isn't fair to the students.  Most want to do well in the class, get caught up and pass, but they can't with so many zeros. Really, I think the 15% overall marks lost is very fair, and should be considered.

Ying doesn't mind the cut-off date and zeros, but would get rid of late marks entirely:

I think that they should just get three days to one week to hand in any overdue assignments. If they are short assignments then three days is fine. But if it is a project then just one week. If they don't get those assignments in after the three days to one week,  then it it their problem and they just get a zero mark on their assignments/projects. If teachers keep on giving them more time, they are going to get into a habit of handing work in late and they will never learn how to get things in on time and won't know how to handle this situation. This won't prepare them for university or college. If this happens after graduating grade 12, I bet that they will never pass their courses in university/college in the near future.

Others agree with the Cooper, O'Connor and Wakeman group, and prefer no penalties at all:

Owen's concern is that,

I believe having penalties for handing in work late promotes kids to give up.  If a kid is behind on a task, instead of being encouraged to succeed, teachers are discouraging and make the path to failure an easier option for the individual. Slowly decreasing the students' mark does not encourage them to finish the task faster and to work harder; it degrades their confidence so quickly that most just end up not completing the task at all. These thoughts of failure when falling behind are picked up and kept as they continue their lives and are subconsciously the first thing that comes to mind when behind on tasks, whatever they may be. People are being taught to think this way throughout their whole life, and the educational system needs to change.

Samantha agrees,

The late penalty for school work should be changed because there’s no point in handing in work that you’re not going to get full marks on. Some people will feel “ripped off” or “cheated” by this; they will decide to just give up and not even bother to hand in the assignment....I’d rather get a zero saying I didn’t hand in the project than get a 50 on something I worked really hard on. If they care about school they will try to hand the work in on time anyway. Most people enjoy handing in their work on time and get flustered when the deadline is approaching whether or not there is a penalty for being late. I understand that there are some people who don’t care about deadlines, but I and other people do prefer to get their projects in on time.  My last reason is you shouldn’t be penalized because you need more time. Sometimes you will encounter problems like you have 50 other projects, you don’t understand the assignment or maybe you just don’t have the time. I don’t think it’s fair to lose marks over something you can’t control. 

Finally Ariel suggests a carrot over a stick:

I believe the current punishment of 5% off every day is a tad unfair because it may not seem like a large number, but if you're barely passing a course, it could make all the difference in the world. This punishment has mainly just taught students how to make up good enough excuses for them not to lose the 5%. I have always believed that awarding students to have the assignment in a day early was always successful. If a teacher were giving bonus marks to students who handed it in a day early, that would encourage students to get it done. Another possible solution is saying that students can hand in the assignment anytime in the week (Monday-Friday), and if it's not in by Friday then it won't be accepted. This way students will be reminded every day of the week, giving them no excuse for them to not hand it in.

I think they've covered pretty much every single possibility!  There's no simple answer, but, like the first few, my opinion is driven by concern with students who will let the work pile up until it's insurmountable.  It'll be interesting to see if we can come to a consensus in the classroom to guide us until June, and to see how it all plays out next year!

What do YOU think would be the best system?